LYTrules.com EXCLUSIVE: Tobin Bell talks SAW V

I last talked to Tobin Bell over the phone in December, for an article about the year in horror films. Though I only used a brief quote in the final piece, I used some of the rest of our conversation as the basis for an OC Weekly online exclusive, and the rest, well…it was off the record, as he grilled me on what I liked and didn’t like in the SAW sequels, as well as talking about some upcoming projects too premature to announce.

At a recent Lionsgate party, a publicist told me that he couldn’t stop talking about our interview. And then he sought me out. The rest, give or take a few extraneous words, is the dialogue that ensued. Be forewarned, some of it is geek-level stuff. Don’t expect a ton of SAW V spoilers, but if you’re a fan, I think you’ll dig it.

Tobin Bell: When I saw your name on the list, I said I’m gonna talk to Luke. I’ve looked at the notes that I took; I took good notes during that conversation, because I frankly thought that a lot of your ideas were on the money

LYT: I told you at the time that THERE WILL BE BLOOD’s gonna win the Oscar, and it’s based on your line [in SAW II]

Does he say that in the film?

-he doesn’t in that movie. You say it

I know, but I kept looking…I eventually saw THERE WILL BE BLOOD on an airplane and I kept listening for that line, and I liked the film very much, but I don’t recall what the allusion was to

-yeah, there wasn’t even that much blood

No, I could just hear some studio guys going “We need a line!” There wasn’t even that much blood, that’s right, just a little bit of blood seeping onto the bowling alley at the end, that’s about it.

-so you probably can’t tell me much about SAW V, but can you tell me approximately how much screen time you get in this?

No, because I haven’t seen the cut. It’ll have a lot to do with what they do. I’m hoping they’ll tighten the whole thing up, so I couldn’t honestly tell you, I really have no idea. I’m always surprised. I always feel like less is more. I do it when I write, and I’m sure you do too, you try to cut down to something of significance.

-oh yeah, that’s always the worst part, for journalism, anyway.

But you learn a lot more about Costas Mandylor, and Detective Hoffman, and more of the Jigsaw puzzle in five.

-do we learn more about your character, significantly, do you think?

Yeah, I would say you learn a significant piece, or pieces. Now knowing you, having talked to you, I’m not sure you’ll share that point of view, but I think all the pieces come together to be one more additional moment or bit of information

-I just wanna make sure we get a lot of Jigsaw scenes, because that’s the main reason I’m there

Well, Luke, I look forward to talking to you after the film is out. I’m sure you’ll have very clear thoughts and impressions.

-Now, I know you probably haven’t seen a lot of footage, if any, but can you tell us, based on being in the set, if you think the visual style will be noticeably different with the change of directors?

No, because we have Kevin Greutert as the editor, and he’s been the editor since one. He’s the guy, in my view, who is the musician, the guy who creates the rhythms and the beats, the moments, the, uh, style of the piece. Hopefully the director is the storyteller, but Greutert, I think, creates the rhythms, and he is, by the way, gonna direct SAW VI.

-so how is David Hackl as a director different from both Darren Lynn Bousman and from James Wan?

David is a set designer, production designer. He’s an artist, he’s very visual, extremely organized. Darren…you’ve got two kinds of guys, you’ve got guys that roll up their sleeves and go “fuck, let’s go, let’s do it!” and then you’ve got a guy who’s very organized, very methodical, very contemplative. David is very thoughtful. What’s a beautiful thing about David is you can get his ear, and if you have a thought, or an idea, you never feel like you’re taxing him, you never feel like you’re struggling to get his ear, he’s really a joy to work with in that way, because it’s relaxing. Darren is…I like working with Darren too because he has all this energy, but sometimes to get through that energy to get his focus is difficult. So, y’know, you deal with different things, different bosses, somebody you like for different reasons, and I liked working with David for that reason, it was like, I would call Darren working with a storm, and working with David’s like sittin’ on a beach

-where does James Wan fit into that?

James was a very first time director – not that Darren wasn’t, David as well, but both of them were working in an environment that had been created. James walked in to what they had turned into a studio – I forget the name of the place, in downtown LA – with a million dollar budget, that had to be done on time, not that most films don’t, but so James was very…we didn’t have any of the creative discussion. Of course, I was lying on the floor in a pool of blood, so there wasn’t a whole lot for me to talk about.

-but you also obviously had to record all those lines and all the tapes and stuff

Yeah, but frequently they’d pull out the tape recorder and go “say the thing!” so I would go over in a corner and I’d say the thing. They’d use that as the wild track, I didn’t ultimately record all those tape recordings until deep into post production, when the film was almost completely locked, because the timing of them changes according to how long the film is in certain sections, so…James was like a baby in the hands of these guys, yeah, he was the director, but I got to tell you, Dan Hefner, who was the first A.D., was moving that set forward. I mean, first A.D.s do that, but I just remember very clearly how Dan was moving James around and looking at his watch. Dan’s always looking at his watch anyway, because that’s his job, but under those circumstances with a very limited budget and 18 days, Dan did his job very well, and James realized…I mean, when I saw James’ ten-minute short, I knew James could realize this film, so since he created it, he did what he wanted, but I think in answer to your question, there was not a lot of time for deep creative discussion with James Wan, I just felt he was up against the clock. I’m sure he talked to Leigh Whannell and Cary Elwes much more than he talked to me. I love James’ gentleness. Have you met him before?

-yes, I did, I met him at comic-con when he was promoting DEATH SENTENCE

I’d like to have an opportunity to work with James in a creative environment. I felt like we were working on a subway that kept stopping at stations, then it would just take off, so there wasn’t a lot of time to talk.

-On the set of the first one, was it you lying there on the floor every day? Did they ever have a dummy, or was it you in every shot?

If you saw me, it was me. It was no dummy. If they were doing close-ups, and you didn’t see me, I would get up, dripping wet, I would put on a robe covered in blood, wrap some towels around me, and go and try and take a break, have something to eat, or whatever, and they let me know when they were gonna see a piece of me, and I’d be back, I’d take off the robe, I’d take off the towel, and I’d be back down on the floor.

-that’s gotta be the hardest thing in the world, just to stay still. I’ve acted in a couple of movies, and I had to do a death scene right after I did a fight scene…I couldn’t hold my breath because I was so tired, so I knew I was gonna be seen breathing if anyone was careful.

Yeah, you try to hold your breath, you try to make sure that the position of your legs is the same as it was in the previous shot, and that’s about it! Try not to laugh.

-now I’m gonna give you a geek-level question, because I know you think about this character so deeply that you can probably answer it. It seems to me that somewhere in the series Jigsaw says that he doesn’t lie, but yet in the first one, the line about the blood being poisoned so you could dip the cigarette into it…that’s a lie, isn’t it?

Blood being poisoned?

-Remember, there’s a note where he says think about it, you don’t have to use the gun to kill Leigh Whannell’s character, the implication being that if he dips the cigarette into your blood, because you’ve supposedly killed yourself from being poisoned, that Leigh Whannell will smoke it and die – which he fakes – but obviously the blood isn’t poisoned at all, because you’re not actually dead

I dunno, I’ll have to think about that one, but listen, Luke, you may have me, who knows. I’ll have to think about that.

-I knew you were able to handle them before, so I had to throw that one out

That’s okay. I don’t have a real good answer to it, to be honest with you. I try not to lie.

-Do you ever have times with the directors where they tell you something, and you’re like, “No, Jigsaw wouldn’t do that”?

Oh yes, all the time. Hopefully we’ve talked about that before we’re on the set, because that could be a long conversation, and there’s not a lot of time to do that once you’re in the middle of the work day. Sometimes it’s a quick and easy decision – I’m trying to see if I can think of something that came up where we decided…very often the director’ll say “Oh no, have him do this!” or “have him do that.” Darren Bousman knew this guy very well. There’s a lot of people around the set who know him pretty well. Alex Cavanaugh, the costume designer, knows him well; the director of photography, David Armstrong, knows the story very well and knows him very well. David Hackl, who just did this film, was the production designer for 2, 3, and 4, and I think the people, no matter what they do, I don’t care if they sweep the stage, if they’re around, there’s merit to their thoughts, so you can learn something from them. That’s one of the great things about working with the same people over and over again.

-Can you tell us if Shawnee [Smith] is in this one?

No, she’s not in this one. There was a moment where she was supposed to be, but she ended up having to go to Bulgaria or some place like that to do some film, and so it didn’t work out. It’s kind of an idea for something, but I hope very much to get Shawnee back into the story. Some things you can control, some things you can’t.

-Has part 6 got the go-ahead already?

As far as I know, it does. It’s such a crapshoot. Let’s see what 5 does. Let’s see how the fans and the Luke Thompsons of the world feel about 5. I would think this thing has enough legs to do something in 6.

-Oh, I feel fairly sure it does

But I just don’t know.

-I had heard that tentatively they planned to end the current story arc with 6. Have you heard anything like that?

Yes, I have heard that, but, y’know, you hear a lot of things, and I half the time I don’t know what the hell’s their real…things change one month to the next. As a creative person I get involved on a certain level, but I’m not involved in the business, in the marketing, that stuff. It just depends on what those guys think is the right thing to do.

-After you did 3 and got killed off, were you amazed they found a way to bring you back for 4?

No, not really. You know, I mean look at…that’s what film is. Film, you can do anything. Anything is possible in film. Look at MICHAEL CLAYTON, that whole film is a flashback, starts in the present, the entire heart of the film is a flashback, and then you’re back in the present at the end. Look at how flashbacks are used in P.S. I LOVE YOU…have you seen it?

-No, I have not

I know it’s not your thing.

-Hey, I like some romantic comedies

See it. It’s worth seeing. It’s a really interesting use of flashbacks, written by Richard LaGravenese

-It’s interesting, because I remember when it came out, a couple of reviewers said it was the romantic comedy version of SAW

They did?

-Yeah. I’m pretty sure the LA Weekly did.

That’s bizarre. That’s really something. There’s actually a scene in Yankee Stadium, on top of the dugout, which of course endeared the film to me, because I’m a Yankee fan. What else, anything?

-I’m still waiting for an 18-inch action figure of you. If you can make that happen, please do

They only have a small one?

-Yeah. Did you ever see the 12-inch Japanese one that we talked about last time? How it was wrong because it comes with a pig mask that you never wore, only Amanda did?

I miss Amanda.

-Me too.