Really. Is it?
This has been swirling through my mind since the death of Ted Kennedy, one of the right-wing’s most hated Democrats. If you honestly hated the guy in life, should you be obliged to suspend that hate in death?
I don’t think anyone argued on the day of Saddam Hussein’s execution that we should say only nice things. Kennedy is not comparable as a person, but this is an extreme example.
On the other extreme end, I don’t think many people support the loathsome pastor Fred Phelps loudly protesting outside military funerals with signs calling the soldiers “Fags.”
Part of the issue with Ted Kennedy is that those who disliked him rarely seemed to make it a policy discussion. It was all about Chappaquiddick, the litmus test for any liberal who turns conservative (It was Michael Berube who coined the joke: ““Everything changed for me on September 11. I used to consider myself a Democrat, but thanks to 9/11, I’m outraged by Chappaquiddick.”). The thing is, many of them are outraged by something that happened (a) in 1969, before they were even born, and (b) to someone they probably would make fun of had she lived, for her appearance or being a slut or whatnot, as was done to Monica Lewinsky.
Driving into the water and causing a death by your own incompetence is an awful thing, and indefensible. But nobody I know of defines Laura Bush’s entire career that way, even though she too is responsible for a traffic death. Kennedy was tried and got off lightly. But it’s not like he wasn’t busted for it. The courts decided…and therefore what, we then write off forty subsequent years of legislating? If you have a problem with the courts, reform the courts. We don’t do double-jeopardy in this country.
Bit of a tangent there. I just tire of people pretending to be concerned about a dead girl who’s nothing more than a rallying symbol to them. She was, after all, a Democrat, and probably wouldn’t appreciate being used as such. Let me just say here and now that even if Joe Biden himself were to murder me, I would not want to be used in wingnut rallying cries, ever.
But no, the point is, do you keep silent when someone you dislike dies? I didn’t when Reagan died, or Jesse Helms. I think it’s best to avoid cheap shots as much as possible, but if you had substantive criticisms, don’t suddenly pretend you didn’t.
And if you’re going to make a show of class and say you disagreed with the guy, but will observe silence out of respect, it sort of undercuts the whole point if you’re back to talking about Chappaquiddick a day or two later.
ADDENDUM: A personal anecdote came to mind on this. Way back when I went to school in Ireland, at a place called The High School (really), there was a groundskeeper named Jim, a white-haired man whom I considered barely competent and not very nice. One day he died, and school was scheduled to let out early for his funeral that we were all to attend. I was adamant that I didn’t want to go because I didn’t like Jim. But then, in assembly, school headmaster Mr. Brook sternly noted that anyone who didn’t want to go to the funeral had to see him afterwards and explain why. Teachers there were an intimidating lot, and I was easily intimidated back then. So I caved. Didn’t stay after, just went to the funeral.
The priest who presided at the funeral made sure to thank “Mr. Brookling, president of the college.”
If you were Jim, do you think you’d have wanted me in that church on that day?
Disagreements should not fade with death. If two people disagreed on health care reform and one died, the other should still disagree. Take for instance Orin Hatch & John McCain, good friends of Kennedy but didn’t agree about shit and that won’t change in his death. Politics shouldn’t be personal.
Where the line is drawn, for me, is when people attack the mourners. For instance, after Ed McMahon died, a friend of mine was angry with me that I said it’s sad, because he believed Ed robbed people blind with his sweepstakes. Another friend clapped when Jerry Falwell died and said “he deserved to die” (odd statement from an anti-death penalty person), and another was mad that people cared about the so-called “child-molester” MJ.
Disagreements don’t give people the right to forget that a person has family, a wife/husband, kids, friends etc and depending on the circumstance of the death, these people’s lives are changed forever. A death can affect many people very deeply and we should respect that normal healing process no matter who that person is (and yes there are some exceptions).
But overall, disagreements in life can still remain in death.
I can see where the “don’t speak ill of the dead brigade tend to come from – and can also see Matt’s point about being consistent etc – but I reserve the right to join with a group of people I know and have a pretty good party when Maggie Thatcher dies – you may never know how much she contributed to anti-freedom legislation and the death of society but we do, in the valleys of south Wales hundreds upon hundreds of families were utterly screwed by her deliberate policies designed to subjugate the working classes.
say it how you mean it – if Thatchers friends and relatives are offended, too bad – the three I know of are also utter shitheads.
My problem is when citizens denounce the mourners.
People can hate the Jackson 5, his kids, his lawyers etc and say all of them are a bunch of losers, but anger over his memorial is unjustified, as these people are mourning someone THEY loved.
And even though someone may think he’s a child molester and “deserved to die”, someone else, his relatives, kids and friends do not share in that opinion and are mourning a great loss, something that will ultimately affect them for the rest of their lives.
Hating Thatcher and those that are affected by her eventual death, even while they grieve, is fine because I don’t think you would hold signs at her funeral that read: “Why do you care!! She deserved to die!” And if so, maybe then Thatcher is an exception for you and many of us have a few exceptions.
absolutely Matt – I have no desire to fart in the faces of the mourners, don’t want to be near them – I will be miles away partying with those who really felt the pain she created… it will be closure…
I have a couple exceptions too. Osama, Hitler, maybe Kim Jong, some serial-killers etc — I think when you have a person who is continuously & presently causing you harm, then killing them would be in self-defense. And if those persons have funerals, I’m not sure if I could say “let us mourn” in the same way.
(But I also have a problem with the present Republican stance of “pre-crime” self-defense. Meaning anyone who is not with us, is evil. McCarthyism renewed)
But discourse based solely on opinion I don’t always like. I never liked anything Jerry Falwell said, nor will I ever agree with Glenn Beck, Bush et. al, but do I think they deserve to die? or will I cheer at their funerals? absolutely not.
Will I feel a bit of release? Probably. But any release will be short lived as someone will eventually take their place.